
http://books.google.com/books?id=FucDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT25&lpg=PT25&dq=The+key+issue+is+jobs.+You+can't+get+away+from+it:+jobs.+Having+a+buck+or+two+in+your+pocket+and+feeling+like+somebody&source=bl&ots=TYKi7WaW5v&sig=-4ggLp9hfdxXUvrZIF8U1OpGMSU&hl=en&ei=0CPkS4LSJ4P68Aakk7SpBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA Mother Jones Magazine - Sep 1995
The Guardian interview (2002)